Octavia Spencer: 

I don’t think that there’s ever a time in my life where I walk outside and the world is just homogenous in any way. There is always a variety of people, people from all walks of life, all religions, all body types. And this fantasy that everyone is 18 to 30 and fit and, you know, stunningly beautiful is ridiculous.

So is Hollywood there? No, Hollywood is not there. Hollywood is not there. Yet, but we have definitely made strides.

Jay Ruderman: 

Hi, I’m Jay Ruderman and welcome to All About Change, a podcast showcasing individuals who leverage the hardships that have been thrown at them to better other people’s lives. I say, um, put mental health first because if you

don’t This generation of Americans has already had enough.

Jay Ruderman: I stand before you. Not as an expert, but as a concerned citizen.

When Octavia Spencer lost her mom, she felt that she’d have to work extremely hard to accomplish all that her mother had dreamed she would.

Octavia Spencer: 

I realized after my mom passed away that I was responsible for my life path that there were always going to be no’s. But if I wanted anything that I’d have to be tenacious, that I’d have to be persistent.

Jay Ruderman: 

Octavia followed her dream and decided to pursue a career in acting. As a black woman, that path required more work and grit than it might have.

Octavia Spencer: 

You’re going to have to fight tooth and nail and that’s just not for black women for sure for minority women But women in general we usually play that supporting character To a male lead for women of color black Latino Asian We usually facilitate the white narrative of.

And what I would say to anyone who is good at writing, or if you’re not good at writing, find your tribe of people who write, who have the same interests and, um, utilize each other’s talents to further your careers.

Jay Ruderman: 

Through years of working in the industry, Octavia realized that she could affect more change behind the camera on the production side of Hollywood.

Octavia Spencer: 

Rather than wait for studios to think I’m worthy, small enough, thin enough, pretty enough, I am just banking on myself and creating the roles that I would like to play. The most important role that I play now is that of a producer. To provide those opportunities, not just for me, but for other people who are already going to have a hard time seeing their dreams realized.

Jay Ruderman: 

Octavia’s persistence has not only allowed her to achieve her dreams, but to use her position to help open doors to other underrepresented groups in the industry.

So Octavia Spencer, thank you so much for being my guest on All About Change. I’m really looking forward to our conversation.

Octavia Spencer: 

I’m excited to be talking to you, Jay. So thank you for having me.

Jay Ruderman: 

So let’s start at the beginning. You grew up in Montgomery, Alabama. You attended Auburn University, which I know you’re very proud of that.

And initially, my understanding is that you considered a career in the law, but ultimately gravitated towards acting. Can you talk about that process and how you ended up focusing on acting?

Octavia Spencer: 

It’s, it’s funny. I, I think, I’ve always had an affinity for the law and I, I don’t know why. It just seems very natural to me.

Before I could afford attorneys, I would Read everything myself and, you know, as a, as an actor, but early on, I, I just felt that as much as an education was integral to one success, understanding the rule of law and understanding. The letter of the law was also important. And then I realized I was in the minority there.

Not everybody had those interests. And I think also my mom died when I was 17, so it was likely. me wanting to fulfill her dreams for me and her desires for me. But I, at a young age, I, I can’t remember. I want to say it was the Academy Awards, but I remember watching a, a clip on the evening news and, and the people were all dressed and, Sparkly and beautiful and poised and regal.

And they were receiving awards. And I remember asking my mom a lot of questions about how, uh, how did they get the awards and what did they do for a living that prompted them to. Be at that award ceremony. And I was entranced. And so that was imprinted on my DNA just as much as procedurals. Even as a kid, I would stay up late at night watching, you know, law shows and cop shows and all of that.

For me, the, the evolution happened after my mother passed away. When I enrolled at Auburn, I enrolled as a liberal arts English major because most lawyers do English because you’re going to be writing so many briefs and then you go on to law school to get your JD. And so that was my plan to go to law school after Auburn.

But while I was at Auburn, I was drawn to the theater because I had a double minor in theater arts. And journalism, and I just couldn’t get the arts or theater out of my blood. And so I just decided that I needed to pursue my own dreams. And as futile as it might’ve seemed, you know, a young girl from Montgomery, Alabama going on to pursue acting in California, I knew that that’s what I wanted to do.

So I left that all behind and thought, well, one day maybe I’ll play a lawyer.

Jay Ruderman: 

And my understanding is that you were very, very tenacious. And can you talk a little bit about breaking into the system as a young black woman who didn’t have a lot of connections in Hollywood? Can you talk about some of the obstacles that you faced and how you overcame them?

Octavia Spencer: 

I will definitely tell you I recently received a lifetime achievement award from From Trinity rep at Brown. And I had to think about my life. And, you know, a few years ago I received a lifetime achievement award from Auburn. And it’s so funny when you sit and, and reflect on. Where you are and how you got there, the journey for me, it was strange because I’ve never taken no for the final answer.

I realized early on that I, after my mom passed away and that I was responsible for my, Life path that there were always going to be knows, but if I wanted anything that I’d have to be tenacious that I’d have to be persistent. And I think back now, I, I, I think this was a God wing. What I consider a God wing whoopie Goldberg and Sissy Spacek did a movie in my hometown called the long walk home.

Um, And I had just graduated high school when the production office is set up. And when I, I called every single day to try to get to work there. And when I tell you every day, I mean, every day when I found that phone number, which they mistakenly, I think, printed in the paper. And then, I started looking to see where the offices were, and I, when I found the offices, I drove there every single day to get them to hire me.

And I finally got a job as an intern in the extras casting office. And that’s where my journey began. And it was the best way. It’s like working in the mail room was the best way for me to learn. To get set skills and then utilize those because I use those now as an actor, as a producer to commune with my crew.

My job as a, as a producer is not only to make sure the material is up to my standards, but once we’re on the set, I produce the crew. I show up every day. I make sure that we don’t keep them as long as, you know, you know what I mean? If I’m not prepared, then it impacts the day. And then I also reward our crew.

So I produced the crew, I produced the people, and I learned how to do that by Starting in the film industry mailroom, basically, you know, working in extras casting, but there were no connections prior to that. I mean, whoopie Goldberg. And what she did was remind me of a promise that I made to my mom to graduate college.

Because after that film was over, I was ready to move to Los Angeles. Like I was still 17. And, uh, she reminded me that. I had made a promise to get my degree, whether in law or film, and she reminded me that Hollywood would always be there. And so that was a huge God wink. I think that this movie came to my hometown and I didn’t know they did that, that they filmed all over the place on location.

And meeting Whoopi, she was one of my favorite actresses, and so was Sissy Spacek. And those, you know, the people that I got to meet working on the film, both in front of and behind the scenes, I feel really had an impact on my very impressionable 17 year old mind. But tenacity, definitely, because I, if I, if I listened, To the nose that I received every single day,

Octavia Spencer: 

I would not have embarked on that journey. I don’t think.

Jay Ruderman: 

And your first film, A Time to Kill, you know, you were, you were tenacious in getting that role. Can you talk about how, how you landed that role?

Octavia Spencer: 

It’s very funny. I, again, I was working in the extras casting office because now I had built a tiny little resume and most of the directors that I had worked with in helping do location casting, my, the, the casting director that I worked with, she sometimes did location casting and the extras.

And when she did the location casting, I would help out. And, and the auditions and nearly all of the directors that, that she’d worked with, there would be a role of one or two lines and they’d say, I’d like someone with personality, you know, like, like Octavia. And then the light would come on, Oh, you should read for the role.

And I would stick to no, no, no, I’m not an actor, but thank you. And somehow when I worked on a time to kill. It was one of those books that I loved and it was Sam Jackson, Sandy Bullock and Matthew McConaughey. I was hoping that Joel Schumacher would say, Octavia, you should read for a role. And he didn’t.

He did not. I pursued that and rather than it be given to me, you know, I had to audition and it was basically eight words, wait, innocent, innocent, innocent, innocent, we won, we won, six words. And it was Sandra Bullock’s nurse. And I actually wanted to audition for this woman who had one line and I can’t remember what that line was, but she started this riot and Joel Schumacher said, no, no, no, no.

Your face is too sweet. You should be Sandy’s nurse. So they brought the sides for me to read. And I had been Mally Finn was the casting director on that. And I had been working with Mally. And I auditioned and they gave me the role and we filmed it the last day of shooting.

And they gave me like this great trailer, all of these things. It was really sweet, but I definitely pursued that because I was ready, I think, to take the leap. And I was, you know, counting on the fact that I would get that role. And thank you, Joel Schumacher. May you rest in peace for launching my career.

Jay Ruderman: 

Octavia, do you think that there are obstacles for women of color to not only become actors, but also to become directors and, and producers? Do you see that in today’s Hollywood?

Octavia Spencer: 

I think in order to become an actor, you, you, you just do it now. Are there going to be roles? where one could have a varied career.

No, there aren’t. You’re going to have to fight tooth and nail, and that’s just not for Black women. For sure for minority women, but women in general, we usually play that supporting character to a male lead for women of color, Black, Latino, Asian. We usually facilitate the white narrative, the friend of, and What I would say to anyone who is good at writing, or if you’re not good at writing, find your tribe of people who write, who have the same interests, and utilize each other’s talents to further your careers.

There are always going to be obstacles. There are still obstacles. Obstacles for me now having won an Academy Award and total of three nominations. I still have limitations and obstacles, but I decided that where I am now, I have the luxury, the privilege to develop things. And so rather than wait for studios to think I’m worthy, small enough, thin enough, pretty enough, I am just banking on myself and creating the roles that I want to play.

Would like to play the most important role that I play now is that of a producer to provide those opportunities, not just for me, but for other people who are already going to have a hard time seeing their dreams realized. So yes, there were obstacles. There are still obstacles. There will be obstacles.

If you want to act, you must first train and then you. Do it, whether it’s in musical theater in your hometown, once you get your land legs, then you, you, you break out and you try Los Angeles or a bigger market because it does, you don’t have to come to Los Angeles to be successful. If you live in Georgia, if you live in new Orleans, if you live in a place that, um, has a lot of filming done there.

So, um, yes, I’m sorry. I’m very long winded. 

Jay Ruderman: 

No, no, that’s, that’s good. Do you feel that. That there’s more of an understanding in the industry of, of the need for authentic portrayal of roles, whether that be, you know, people of color or based on sexual orientation or, you know, disability, do you think that there’s more of an appreciation that different types of actors can actually participate in the industry?

Octavia Spencer: 

I believe that should be a core belief that we should see society represented in film. What I don’t believe is that we, we should compromise artistic integrity. One of the things that I love about you when I met you is that we met through Peter Farrelly. Because you believe in having the visibility of, of disa people who are disabled in the film industry.

In film and television. I also believe that. And, I don’t think that there’s ever a time in my life where I walk outside and the world is just homogenous in any way. There is always a variety of people, people from all walks of life, all religions, all body types. And this fantasy that everyone is 18 to 30 and fit and, you know, stunningly beautiful is ridiculous.

So, is Hollywood there? No. Hollywood is not there. Hollywood is not there yet. But we have definitely made strides. Why do I say that? Because I am where I am. And I know a lot of people who don’t resemble that cookie cutter image have also been quite successful. But we have a long way to go.

Jay Ruderman: 

Right. So what do you think about The Help?

The Help covers a pivotal time in American history. What drew you to the project and do you think it was important to play roles of characters who traditionally were silenced in our history?

Octavia Spencer: 

I became a part of the help because Katherine Stockett was Tate Taylor’s best friend and Tate and I were roommates at the time and she wrote a character based on one interaction with me and it was, you know, basically many.

had my appearance and she had my bum personality, you know, cause she met me when I was dieting and, and we were doing a walking tour in August in New Orleans and I was just not having it. And so my physical appearance and the bombastic personality that I possess at certain times.

Movie Clip:

Miss Celia! Minnie, hey, stop!

Minnie! Miss Celia! Minnie! Stay back! Stay back! I’m not here to hurt you! Girl! You gonna put the stick down? Uh uh. Listen, Celia finally told me about the babies. All of them. But I also know the minute you started working here, she started getting better. So you, you saved her life. You knew how it was going to be.

Octavia Spencer: Here the whole time,

fried chicken and okra on the first night. I mean, y’all could have at least put some corn pone on the table. No,

Octavia Spencer: I can’t let you eat no more corn. Mr. Johnny.

Thanks to you. Now I’ve had to let out every pair of pants. I own.

Just leave that

Octavia Spencer: 

is who many. It was the Genesis of many. And, uh, When she told me that, because I had met her and then like seven years later, I think she asked me to read the book. And when I read the book, I loved the fact that she Highlighted the people who were normally invisible. So I know that there are people in Hollywood who were fatigued by characters who were in subjugated roles, especially black women, black people.

For me, though, these characters represent people who are still and they don’t have to be black. They are still integral to our society. And to portray any person who, whose voice is silenced in any way was a dream for me. So I know it’s controversial for people. But for me, I was honored to play Minnie. I was honored to play a woman who represented so many women who came before me.

And so many women who still carry that role in our society. How many people still have, they may not be, you know, maids, but they’re nannies. Right. Or they’re cleaning ladies. And they facilitate all of that. All of our lives, and they have great value and importance. So that role definitely is how people came to know me, but I was working, you know, doing, you know, gig a day jobs in Hollywood for 15 years prior.

Jay Ruderman: 

So that movie sort of changed your life and you’ve gone on to win or be nominated for consecutive Academy Award nominations for Hidden Figures in the Shape of Water and these films are very, very different, but they both showcase women of strength and resilience. Can you talk about the preparation process for these roles and what drew you to them?

Octavia Spencer: 

It’s, it’s strange for Hidden Figures. I had, well, I can’t say I had just done the help. It was a few years after the help, quite a few. And I thought because the help was historical fiction that these women, these black women who were part of the space program, who helped get our astronauts into space and who were integral to our, the space program, the space race, surely we would have.

Learned about them in school. So I assumed it was historical fiction. And as I, when I met with Donna Gelati and. Realize that these women actually existed and that they were called computers because they computed the math. I was mesmerized and also again, honored to play women who basically had no agency in society because I think at that time, black women weren’t even allowed to vote.

Black people weren’t even allowed to vote and that they, they had so much power in, in, in their own lives and, and agency in their own lives, but not society. And so I would prepare for any character from history because that time existed before me. I’m a product of the seventies and eighties. And I would always prepare by watching this documentary called Eyes on the Prize.

And it’s a civil rights era. Because it was a part of America that I didn’t know. And I had to make sure that there were no anachronisms in my portrayal.

Jay Ruderman: 

Right.

Octavia Spencer: 

Of these women. So, the strength I think that you, you see, or that these characters exude, came from. The fact that they had no agency in society, many had no agency in society.

Dorothy Vaughn had no agency within society, but they were pillars of strength within their communities, within the black community. So I, I found that fascinating. I also found it liberating and my prep work usually began. With a historical lesson.

Jay Ruderman: 

Yeah. And also portraying Madam C. J. Walker, who was the first self made Black female millionaire in America.

It’s a series on Netflix, and I really enjoyed it. But what did you find inspiring about that, and, and, and what challenges did you face bringing her story to life?

Octavia Spencer: 

We grew up knowing about Madam C. J. We were taught about her from our mom as a, she was a standard bearer. And it’s so strange. I think Madam C.

1. died maybe 70 years before, on the exact day that I was born. Wow. And I, I didn’t realize that until doing research for the role. But again, I didn’t know it. As a child, but we had very similar ideology. I think the tenacity, the work ethic, the idea or understanding that we are the masters of our fate, no one else can dictate your path in life.

And. It was one of the things that I love. It is one of the things that I love about Madam CJ and what she was able to accomplish at a time when Black women, she was basically the first generation to not be born a slave. And what she did during the reconstruction period is A marvel. And it’s still a marvel.

I, I’m still humbled by what she was able to achieve. I think it’s one of the things, because we, we had no money. We were poor. And it was one of the tenants, I think, of, of, of how we were reared. My mom would always tell us we can, if we dream it, we can be it. And, and that was, what madam did, you know, she dreamed it for herself and she actualized it for herself.

And, and that has always been a part of my upbringing and it’s foundational for me. And so I was very honored to play madam CJ.

Jay Ruderman: 

Well, all of these roles that we’ve discussed, you know, have been, I mean, you bring a very personal element to the roles that, that, that just draws the audience in. And I think they take something, at least I take something away from it.

I learned from these, these movies. They’re not only enjoyable. But, you know, I take something away and I love watching them over and over again. Octavia, I want to talk to you about one of your passions, City Year in Los Angeles. I understand that approximately a million students drop out of school every year in our country.

And you’ve been a long time board member. of City Year in Los Angeles. Why are you passionate about this organization and their mission?

Octavia Spencer: 

I am passionate about City Year. I’m a, I sit on the board of City Year Los Angeles. Education was the key out of poverty for me. and my siblings. And man, I wish that City Year had been around then, but I did okay.

Their goal and their mission statement is to graduate as many children in the Los Angeles area who are in neighborhoods and communities that are underrepresented, that have a high volume of, of dropouts. And, I came to City Year via Stacey Snyder, Leslie Feldman, and Chip Sullivan. It’s been 14 years now.

I went to a City Year event. When we started promoting the help and it struck a chord because I knew that education has always been the key that unlocks all of life’s doors. It has been for me. And so I wanted to make sure that I, since Los Angeles had become my home, that I was a part of, of furthering that goal.

For children in the Los Angeles area. Now, I would like to get a chapter in my home state of Alabama where I grew up, because I think the work that our core members do to tutor these kids and how effective they are, has been beautiful to watch. And, and one of the things that I’m, I’m most proud of that I get to be a part of.

Jay Ruderman: 

I wanted to transition to you becoming a producer and what motivated you to, you’re still an actress and you’re very busy in, in what you do as an actress, but why did you want to open a production company?

Octavia Spencer: 

I actually wanted to be a producer. Before I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a producer more than an actor.

I like the idea of the germ of an idea and then bringing it to a full script and full production. And I didn’t know when I was. Actually learning about acting that that’s what the job was called producer. You know, what do they do? They put the projects together, but I love acting. And I think I, I, what I learned, I was optioning books.

You know, 25 years ago. And I, I think I, I always knew that this was a transition that I would make. But for me, it was born out of the lack of roles, the lack of roles that I felt that would challenge me to get out of my comfort zone. And the way to do that, I think, is to not allow other people. To give you a perspective of who you are, it’s for you to declare who you are.

And I think for me, finding those roles that are different from the, the, the archetypes that I’ve usually played, the only person who was interested in doing that was me. Because people would like to see you in a way. And so that was my, that was the genesis of it.

Jay Ruderman: 

Can you talk about how you named your company Orit?

Octavia Spencer: 

I named my company Orit. Uh, I was working as an intern, um, for one of the most talented and generous casting directors in the business, Francine Maesler. And upon meeting me, maybe five seconds, Octavia, Francine, Francine, Octavia, Octavia, you’re going to sit here. And it was at the front of the office.

You’re, we open all of our submissions. So all the mail that comes in, you open everything and you pull out the headshot. Okay, and maybe 30 minutes in, and Francine also had, there were two other assistants in the, in the front office, and she had two associates, so that had their own offices, but in the main room, the room I was in, I was the first face you’d see when you walk through the door, and there were two assistant desks.

Desks there and I didn’t remember anybody’s name about 30 minutes later. I hear or eat. Can you get such and such on the phone? And I’m just busy, you know, opening the packages. That was my job. Maybe 45 minutes after that, I hear, Orit, I’m gonna need you to make copies of this, uh, script and distribute it.

I’m busy opening the mail. Maybe, and this, now, keep in mind, this is about half. The day before lunch and one of the assistants leaned in and she said, I think you’re a week.

My God, she thinks I’m ignoring her. And it’s one of those things that we still laugh about. And I told her, or it’s going to be my alter ego. And she told me Octavia, I’m sorry, I forgot your name, but one day. Everybody will know it and it was so sweet and I later learned that or read is, um, Hebrew for light.

So it was kind of meant to be while I’m attracted to variety of stories, hope must be a common thread and I view hope as the light at the end of the tunnel. So, or read. Means light and that’s what we hope that our projects will bring in the end.

Jay Ruderman: 

That’s beautiful.

Octavia Spencer: 

Thank you

Jay Ruderman: 

Well, I’m impressed that it’s not only sort of something that you do because you feel you have to do But but you feel passionate about it and you’re thinking about the next step of where it could go and how it could help communities that you’re intimately attached to and and and come from So, let me first, I guess that’s my final question.

Is there any particular role that you haven’t played that you’re like, I’d always liked, I’ve always wanted to play this role?

Octavia Spencer: 

There are so many roles that I haven’t played. I think for me, as long as it’s a character that I have never, the type of character, like, you know, everybody wants me to be the doting.

Now these days, grandmother or mother or the sweet friend who does such and such. There’s that archetype of the nurturer. I’m a nurturing person. I think I, the majority of the people I know are nurturers, but I like the idea of, you know, playing a narcissist one day or playing a sociopath one day or playing, playing things that are against type.

So for me, it would be something against. type, continuing to play someone that I have to build a character that I have to get to know, you know, playing God was something really unique and beautiful and wonderful because it wasn’t anything that I understood. At first, when I got the role, I thought, ah, this is going to be great.

And then I spent months trying to figure out all of this religious doctrine And I was in the airport LAX, getting ready to go to Canada to film it. And I was just. Nervous because I thought I don’t know how to play this character. I don’t have a way in and I was in the bathroom and there was a line to get into the bathroom.

And when I got into the stall because my brain had been working overtime, like, like just like a computer. You know how you Um, try to remember something and your brain in the background keeps trying to remember it. It never idles down. I was in the bathroom and I had the epiphany at I’m the father And I yelled it out and then I realized I was yelling as a woman In the bathroom that i’m the father and I you know, I Realized where I was and I said Stop myself and I waited and like, let a lot of flushes happen and people leave before I came out.

But I realized that my way in was that as a father, I am the mother and that I had to approach everything as the mother, not the creator, but the mother. Of every of all of mankind. And that was my way in. But it was hilarious getting to that point.

Jay Ruderman: 

I will have to say that your your role as ma in the movie was was not the typical role that I envisioned you playing.

So that that must have been somewhat of a stretch.

Octavia Spencer:

 It was a stretch and it was fun and it’s, you, you want to keep challenging yourself because, um, if you don’t use it, it atrophies. So I want to continue to stretch as an actress and as a human, because life is all about growing and evolving. And, um, I’m excited for those prospects.

Jay Ruderman: 

Well, Octavia Spencer, thank you so much again for being my guest on All About Change. You’re a beautiful person who is changing the world. Your activism is changing the industry. So it’s a pleasure having you as my guest, a pleasure having you as my friend. And I really want to thank you for your time.

Octavia Spencer: 

Thank you, Jay. And again, I’m grateful for the privilege of getting to sit down with you. What you’re doing to change the world is beautiful and I wish more people would do it. 

Jay Ruderman: 

Octavia’s advocacy for underrepresented folks in film has gone a long way in manifesting her desire to see society represented on screen. Her commitment to that work will lead not only to better films, But a better world. That’s it for today’s episode. Join us two weeks from today for my talk with gamer and mental health advocate, Booga.

Today’s episode was produced by Rebecca Chaisson with story editing by Yochai Maital and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website, allaboutchangepodcast. com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app.

We’d really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation in partnership with Pod. That’s all for now. I’m Jay Ruderman, and we’ll see you next time on All About Change.