Jay Ruderman:

Welcome to All About Change. Today my guest is Vicki Sokolik.

Almost two decades ago, Vicki became aware of the plight of unaccompanied youth. Homeless minors who have left abusive and troubled homes, who are not in foster care and who’ve taken care of all their basic needs themselves.

1.7 million young people fall into this category. A number of Vicki believes is actually an underestimate. In 2007, Vicki founded the nonprofit, Starting Right, Now, an organization that takes a holistic approach to intervening and getting these young people care by housing them, helping them secure resources like food and counseling, and supporting them in graduating high school and going on to higher education and careers.

Vicki has also written about her advocacy around this issue in her recently released book, If You See Them: Young, Unhoused, and Alone in America.

So Vicki Sokolik, thank you so much for being my guest on All About Change.

Vicki Sokolik:

Thank you so much for having me. I am so honored. You have no idea.

Jay Ruderman:

Let me ask you, a number of our guests have shared origin stories. Peter Egan, Torrey DeVitto come to mind as previous guests and they found their causes by chance.

For you, your son brought to your attention a classmate who was unhoused. And this was a chance encounter and you jumped in immediately and helped. But then, it went beyond that and you took this on as a cause.

So why do you think you took that path rather than just this being a one-off? Why did you make this your mission?

Vicki Sokolik:

I feel like it wasn’t ever my mission. Once my son made me realize that there were these youth that were alone. You can be like an ostrich, you can stick your head in the sand and you can say, “Okay, I saw it, but I’m not going to do anything about it.”

I couldn’t imagine a child that age, 17 years old, navigating life alone and knowing that there were more kids in that same predicament. I couldn’t be an ostrich anymore. My daughter had epilepsy and because of that, had an invisible disability. And it seemed to me that these kids had an invisible disability but had no advocate, and I wanted to be their advocate.

Jay Ruderman:

First of all, what does it mean for a youth to be unhoused and how does that happen? Because at one point these children have parents, they were brought into this world. How did they become homeless?

Vicki Sokolik:

We help a very niche population of kids that are classified as unaccompanied homeless youth, which is a federal term, meaning that the student is not living with their parent or guardian. And they’re not eligible for foster care because they left home versus being taken from their home.

Narrator:

McKinney-Vento Act is a federal law that protects students experiencing homelessness and their families. The relationship between school and home is integral to student success. If the student loses their home or lives in a place that is dangerous to the people living there, they may qualify for protection under the McKinney-Vento Act.

This may look like a student staying in a shelter, hotel, motel, or sharing the housing of others. Or even living in their own home that lacks utilities or is infested with vermin. The McKinney-Vento Act ensures that students receive support in obtaining anything needed for their education, including hygiene items, clothing and educational and medical resources.

In addition to support, students have certain rights pertaining to enrollment, attendance, and transportation. Students that qualify for McKinney-Vento are permitted to stay at their home school if it’s in their best interest, even if they move to another district during the school year.

If this happens, schools are required to provide transportation. If students do have to enroll elsewhere, they are allowed to start the enrollment process even if they don’t immediately have the necessary documents. And schools can help them obtain those documents after enrollment.

Vicki Sokolik:

Which doesn’t mean that the Department of Children’s and Families hasn’t gone in and done investigations in the home, but they never felt that the child was in danger to pull them out.

Almost 100% of the girls that enter my program have been raped in their home by family members or friends of family members when they have been trafficked by them. And at one point the child just says, “Forget it. I’m not going to stay here and let this happen anymore.”

And they start what we call couch hopping where they’re asking a friend, “Can I sleep at your house?” And then, “Can I sleep at your house?” Until really they run out of options and they end up either too far away from school so they can’t get there, or they’re sleeping in park benches. Or they do what’s called survival sex, where they will have sex just to have a bed and then the next night go do the same thing.

And a child ever wants to be away from their parents. The kids that we have still actually really love their parents. It’s just a matter of is it safe to be at home? The other main themes that we see are lots of drugs or alcohol in the home and the kids says, “Forget it. If I don’t get out of here, I’ll never get out of it.”

It could be their sexual orientation that the parent says, “Nope, if you’re going to be gay or trans or whatever, you cannot live here anymore.” And it could just be literally, economics where the family really cannot support all the kids. And they just all start disbanding and going different directions.

When I first started doing this, if somebody would’ve said to me, “There’s a kid on the street that the mom kicked out of the house.” I would’ve immediately said, “Something’s wrong with the kid, bad kid.” And I do not think that anymore at all. I think that there’s a lot of circumstances that go around that, and until you really understand the story, it’s not bad kid and it may not even be bad parent.

Jay Ruderman:

I want you to give some advice to our listeners. What are the signs that people may see in youth? They’re coming across a child, they may have some concerns. What should they look for and what should they do once there’s concern?

Vicki Sokolik:

Well, I would say a student who constantly gets referrals for bad behavior at school, someone needs to ask, “Hey, what’s going on at home? Do you have a home? Is there something I can do to help you?”

A student who walks in a classroom immediately puts their head down and is not interested at all. I would guess is probably tired, hungry, emotionally drained. A student who’s constantly skipping classes, possibly because they can’t do the assignments. Maybe they don’t have access to technology or whatever else the teacher wants them to be able to put it on. Those are immediate signs.

Other things are kids that are constantly walking in the same clothes. They have a repeat of two or three clothes that you see them constantly wearing. Kids that are loners because a lot of kids do not want anyone to know, so they will isolate themselves and be all alone.

I would say those are the main signs. And I think the biggest thing is changing the question. We’re so quick to say, “What’s wrong with you?” Instead of, “Is something going on that I can help you with? You can trust me, you can tell me I’m going to help you.” We’re punitive.

Jay Ruderman:

Right. That’s wise. That’s very wise.

You’re months into promoting your new book. It came out two decades after your work supporting unhoused youth began. Do you think that the conversations around unhoused youth has changed markedly from the time when you first got started?

Vicki Sokolik:

No, sadly. I still do not think people understand that these kids exist with no safety net. And that was one of the biggest impetuses of the book was that there’s 1.9 million of these kids around the country. I can tell you that that number is so inaccurate because when we go in and we’re interviewing kids, they have not been coded. And so there’s probably double that number.

Jay Ruderman:

What do you mean by coded?

Vicki Sokolik:

Okay, that’s a great point.

So when you are an unaccompanied homeless youth, if you let someone at the school know, they will literally give you that distinction in the system so you get coded. And the reason that that’s important is that in the state of Florida, that allows you to actually get public services that you may not have otherwise been eligible for. It’s not true in other states, but in Florida we’ve changed 10 laws.

One of the goals of the book was that I want to change laws on a national level. And the reason for that is we have a student right now who was born in Louisiana. And we can’t get his birth certificate or his social security card because that state does not recognize unaccompanied homeless youth as being eligible to have their own personal documents.

When you can’t get those documents, you can’t work. You can’t apply it to go to your next goals. You’re really dead ended, and that really should be a national law, which we’re working on. I’m so happy to say, we’re actually working on that. So that was one of the goals of the book.

But the other thing is in the state of Florida now, the kids can have access to healthcare. That’s not true in other states. It’s just horrible. I can’t imagine that there’s all these kids out there that are literally surviving alone and that we as a country aren’t saying, “How did this happen?”

Jay Ruderman:

Do you think the public is aware? I didn’t know that figure until I prepared for this conversation. But how can we let more people know that that is such a problem in our country?

Vicki Sokolik:

If we want to have strong communities, we’re only as strong as our most vulnerable population.

Jay Ruderman:

Right.

Vicki Sokolik:

This is the most vulnerable population. And usually school, for a short period of time, will be the kids’ one thing that they will try to maintain until they can’t anymore. Because maybe they have to go to work or maybe they have to go sell drugs or do whatever.

We’re not identifying them in the schools and catching them before they drop out. And like I said, once you drop out of school, you are limited on what you’re doing for the rest of your life and your community won’t be as safe.

Jay Ruderman:

So what I’m taking away is you’re also saying that the laws, are impacting unhoused youth, are changing from state to state and there’s no consistency across the country.

Vicki Sokolik:

For one, I think that everybody should be writing their state legislators asking how we get laws to make sure that we’re supporting unaccompanied homeless youth, specifically, because that is their legal name. I also think that if there’s a way at the school districts on a local level to help them identify these kids, that would also be great.

What we have found is that there’s organizations that do pieces of what we do in each community, but none of them actually do 15 to 17-year-olds because there’s an assumption that if you’re that young, you’re going to go into foster care. But it’s a bad assumption.

That is a very scary age to be alone. Anything could happen to you. Suicide is the number one leading cause of death in this particular population. It sickens me that really no one has taken the lead to say, “Let’s help these kids.”

And I’m going to say something that I’m probably going to get bashed for, but HUD put out a referendum for proposals for communities, specifically for unaccompanied homeless youth. It’s amazing. Okay, they’re going to get involved and they’re going to help this population.

Well, their RFP says that it has to be Housing First, so now you’re going to go put a 15, 16, 17-year-old in an apartment. And according to Housing First, you can’t have any guidelines around it, so you can’t make them go to school. You can’t force them to go to work. It’s almost like people are making these laws or making these programs that make no sense.

Jay Ruderman:

Right, right. Well, that’s often the case. But I would also think shelters can be a mixed bag, because if you are an unaccompanied youth and you go into a shelter, you’re going to be with adults. And you don’t know who you’re going to come across or what that’s going to mean for you. So that’s probably also a fear of these children.

Vicki Sokolik:

Well that, or that the police are going to be called and they’re going to be sent back home, because that happens all the time. And then they run away again.

Jay Ruderman:

I want you to talk a little bit about your book because I just wrote a book, which is not out yet. And it was a very long process, but I’ve been an activist for a couple of decades and it’s sort of a how-to book, how to become a more effective activist.

Vicki Sokolik:

Oh, I need to read that.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, it’s called Find Your Fight. It’s not out yet, but you can pre-order on Amazon. But how was it like for you to write this book, to talk about what you’ve done and to put it down in paper and what has been the reception to the book?

Vicki Sokolik:

Oh my God, the reception to the book has been … I never even fathomed what would happen after the book came out. But to write it was so emotional, mostly because I wanted to make sure that I was representing the kids well. They’re not victims, they’re actually heroes. I wanted to make sure that I was being authentic and true to their story and also being authentic and true to who I was.

And so the hardest part, and I’ll tell you a funny story, is when I got through with a section for the kids, I would pass it off to them so that they could read it for accuracy. And they could write against it, which their writings are the best part of the story.

And I gave Amanda, which is the student that Cameron, my son, had brought home. I gave her her first half and she called me and she said, “Oh my God, Ms. Vicki, I need the rest. What happens?” I’m like, “What do you mean what happens? It’s your story.”

But their reaction to my perception I think, was such an aha moment for me. I loved that they could write against that.

Jay Ruderman:

I want to get back to something that I think is really crucial that you talk about. When you approach someone, they may not want to talk to you right away. But you give your phone number and you say, “If you call, I will answer the phone and I’ll always be available.”

And you’ve talked about how sometimes people do not want to talk to you right away. But that’s a very powerful, I think, way of approaching something saying, “You don’t have to talk to me now, but you can call me.” And people do call you. How has it worked out?

Vicki Sokolik:

Well, I think our referrals come from the school district. And it’s kind of funny because a student will walk in to an interview with us and we do them by Zoom. And through their body language, you can … It is screaming, “I don’t want to be here.”

And I always start by introducing myself and explaining how long … I’ve been interviewing for 17 years and that I’m here to judge them or their story. I’m strictly here to see if they meet criteria to be in our program.

And as I ask, I will actually say to the kids, because you can see it, “Okay. Take a deep breath and let the air out because I can see that you are so tight that you don’t want to share anything with me. But I’m here only to help you. So the more you share, the more I can probably help you. And if it’s not me, maybe there’s another organization that can help you.”

I don’t know why, but it opens up the door for the kids to just really tell me everything. And, everything. And I have learned very quickly that if I can keep a poker face and don’t allow my body to react because that’s what they’re used to. Then, they will continue to tell me everything, because they don’t want judgment in their life. And they certainly don’t trust me.

Jay Ruderman:

But when you hear something that’s disturbing, that people are being abused, do you ever feel like, “I need to tell the authorities about this. This is a dangerous situation.”

Vicki Sokolik:

So I don’t tell the authorities, I go back, because I keep my promise to the student that I’m not going to report it. But I do go back and talk to the social worker about it, who reports it.

However, I am so strong about keeping confidences that when a student enters our program after I’ve interviewed them, not one person in the staff knows their story. Because I believe it’s up to the student to tell their story to whoever they want. That’s not my responsibility to share.

And I think that I build trust really quickly with that because the students will go to a staff member and say, “Oh, I’m sure Ms. Vicki told you X, Y and Z.” And they’ll say, “No, I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

That builds so much trust when you can truly not divulge anything about that student.

Jay Ruderman:

So let’s talk about the typical experience of someone who is enrolling in Starting Right, Now. What are they receiving?

News Reporter:

It’s alarming how many kids don’t have a place to call home. They’re called couch jumpers, abusive parents, a dangerous home environment. There are many reasons that they can’t stay home and sadly, many fall through the cracks of the school system and never reach their full potential.

But one Tampa mom wants to help one child at a time, and her efforts have turned into something great. Today’s great inspiration is Vicki Sokolik.

Plant High School senior, Katie Purnell, is graduating with a 4.5 and heading to college. Her journey hasn’t been easy. She was homeless when one day, a woman reached out to help.

Katie Purnell:

I’ve always had people promise me things sometimes, but they’ve never really actually fulfilled those promises.

News Reporter:

But Vicki Sokolik stuck by Katie’s side just like she has for hundreds of kids overcoming homelessness.

Vicki Sokolik:

Once you figure out that these kids are actually amazing kids, they’ve been dealt very bad hands, but they’re great kids, why would you not help them? They’re making the right decision to get their education and to go do something positive with their life.

News Reporter:

Vicki Sokolik started small helping one child at a time, but that soon grew into a non-profit called Starting Right, Now. From a safe place to live to healthcare, even Dale Carnegie classes and team building skills, students get support to rise to the next level.

Vicki Sokolik:

So I can guarantee you that I have some kids who will end up in the Senate and some kids who will end up being doctors and lawyers and all sorts of things, social workers. And when you realize that these aren’t kids who are just asking for a handout, why wouldn’t you help them?

News Reporter:

Katie, whose parents were both substance abusers died, but now she has someone to look up to.

Katie Purnell:

She’s just a genuine person. And so that’s what … I don’t want to say-

News Reporter:

[inaudible 00:21:55].

Katie Purnell:

I know. She’s someone I aspire to be, her character and how she holds herself.

News Reporter:

Would you call her a great inspiration?

Katie Purnell:

Definitely, definitely.

Vicki Sokolik:

Everything that they would receive if they were in a home with parents. So they get a room, they get academic support, they get their own mentor that literally becomes the reliable person in their life.

They get every type of social service support from making sure that they get medical care to mental health care, to preventative care, to dental care.

They get extreme life skill classes from Dale Carnegie to mindfulness to meditation to literally everything. And then we help them propel to either the military, higher education or vocational training, and we make sure that they have scholarships and financial aid to do that.

Jay Ruderman:

So Vicki, you’re really doing two jobs at the same time. Because you have an organization that you started and is running called Starting Right, Now, which is offering very specific supports to individuals. You’re also advocating for unhoused youths in systematic support through lobbying the government. How do you do those two things at the same time?

Vicki Sokolik:

I don’t lobby.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, you’re trying to change policy.

Vicki Sokolik:

I know, yeah.

My board always says that I’m big on semantics. But yeah, I don’t know how you can help these kids without actually having systems change. And I figured that out very quickly. The system does not work for them. There are still a lot of things that to be changed in order to make the system better.

But just to be a hamster on a wheel doesn’t appeal to me. The running actually has to stop and you have to actually be able to implement change that helps that entire state, and that’s my goal.

Jay Ruderman:

Starting Right, Now, is it only in Florida at this time?

Vicki Sokolik:

So right this second, we are only in Tampa and St. Pete. However, we just started an affiliate program because there was so many people from the book that emailed saying, “I want this in my community.”

And so we’ve actually met with people in Wisconsin and Kentucky and Idaho and all over. We are launching in Florida first, affiliate branches. However, I do feel like we’ll be launching other states quickly. The key will be can we get the laws changed?

Jay Ruderman:

People that are listening to this and said, “I want to do this in my own community.” What’s the first step?

Vicki Sokolik:

So they contact the organization and then our affiliate director will send them a roadmap, because we’re very specific on what has to be done in order to become an affiliate. We want to make sure that we’re partnering with like-minded non-profits who are doing whatever’s in the best interest of the individualized student. And then we’ll go from there.

Jay Ruderman:

What are the gaps between the services offered by Starting Right, Now and the gaps that need to be filled in at the systematic level?

Vicki Sokolik:

Oh my God, there’s so many. One in particular is that we fought at the state level to get Medicaid for our students. And we did win to be able to get it, but they only get it until they’re 21. Whereas foster care kids get it until they’re 26.

Well, as a 21-year-old, if you are living in a college dorm on campus, which the majority of our kids do, chances are you’re still there when you’re 21. You have to prove healthcare. So now that healthcare ends and now you’re having to pay for university healthcare, which is outrageous. So that’s a major gap that has to be changed.

The second gap is while the kids are in high school, they get food stamps. We had that law changed as well. When they go off to their next goal, they can only have food stamps if they work 20 hours a week.

Well, if you’re taking a full-time college courses, you may not be able to work 20 hours a week. You may not be able to have transportation work 20 hours a week. Why would we penalize people who are trying to literally get off public benefits in the future? The kids we serve, they will not be on public benefits. So it doesn’t make sense to me that we wouldn’t close that gap for food insecurity with them.

The biggest thing is really in other states, the birth certificate and social security cards. But the other thing is even in the state of Florida, we have now had our healthcare law for I think six or seven years now. And we had amended it so that if you’re 16 years or above, you can consent for your own healthcare. And yet we still have students that get denied for services because no one knows that law exists.

So there’s lack of information that’s out there. Just, I don’t know. It doesn’t make sense to me that we wouldn’t try to feed as much funding as we could into those that are trying to better themselves instead of passing out money.

Jay Ruderman:

How many alumni do you have right now who are out there living in their own homes, working, contributing to society?

Vicki Sokolik:

So we have more than, I think, 420. We did an alumni survey in 2020 in the height of the pandemic, and one in 10 kids owned their home. Everybody was housed and in careers with benefits.

But the thing that I think was the most eye-opening was we do financial literacy with earned income. That’s how we teach it because we believe that’s the greatest way to really learn it. And every single student has to take 30% of their income and put in a savings. They can’t touch it, and the rest, they have to actually come up with a budget with our finance person.

And 98% of our alumni still followed the budget that they were given, and they had more than six months in savings, which is above the national average for anyone their age.

Jay Ruderman:

Anyone who’s listening to the show, I would advise you to pick up a copy of If You See Them: Young, Unhoused, and Alone in America by Vicky Sokolik.

And I would hope that your program can move from Florida to other states and impact our country.

Vicki Sokolik:

We’re hoping. If you have any pull with making sure that people at Capitol Hill know that these kids exist, that would be amazing. Because I guarantee you the majority don’t. It’s just such an invisible population and I know we can do better.

And I’m so thankful, I could not believe that you asked me to come on your podcast. I’m so honored. I want to make sure that you know that. And I say that sincerely, I couldn’t believe you wanted to talk to me.

Jay Ruderman:

Well, Vicki, thank you so much for being my guest in All About Change. I enjoyed this conversation. It hit home for me, and I’m sure our listeners are going to get a lot out of this. So thank you.

Vicki Sokolik:

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Jay Ruderman:

Today’s episode was produced by Tani Levitt and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website allaboutchangepodcast.com.

If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We really appreciate it.

All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation.

That’s it for now. I’m Jay Ruderman and we’ll see you next time on All About Change.

MUSIC:

With Au revoir but not goodbye.

Au revoir but not goodbye.